Student Loan Justice Exposed

Here is the link to a piece in the NY Times about Alan Collinge and his PAC Student Loan Justice. Please take the time to read it, and feel free to leave your comments here regarding how you feel about the article and about Alan Collinge and Student Loan Justice.

I’ll get things started with a few comments I just received from a reader of my blog. I have to say, his comments are right on target in my opinion. I was beginning to think I was the only one who felt this way, but I am pleased to see that there are other people who hold a similar view of Alan Collinge and his group.

Thank You very much to whoever left these comments. Please keep them coming.

First, you don’t have to be a a Nobel laureate in Econ to understand that the bankruptcy code doesn’t cover your irresponsibility; David Stockman, Reagan’s budget director, took care of that. It has been well known ever since that the Bankruptcy Code doesn’t cover the discharge of student debt. And really, let’s be honest—how much advance research did you do before you happily signed on the dotted line for those loans? Or were you just planning to try and discharge the debt the moment you took it on? Don’t pretend that your loan agreement, or the background Code, had anything whatsoever to do with your decision to load yourself down with student debt without a plan to repay it.

You still can’t get over the fact that you got yourself into this situation, can you? Sure, a nice throw-away line about how you “accept responsibility for borrowing money”, but that’s quickly qualified by a convenient backpedal, that you’d only borrow with “the same consumer protections that every other loan in our nation’s history has had behind it.” It’s always somebody else’s fault—the lender’s for not giving/acknowledging your forbearance request, the legislature’s for closing the bankruptcy loophole a decade before, etc. I also note that you also fail to mention the fact that your lender agreed to waive penalties and interest in February 2008, a point you conveniently overlook in your self-pity.

You voluntarily left your job in 2001, with no place to land, on the leading edge of a recession, with a boatload of debt hanging over your head. That’s an event of your own creation—not a “hardship”. Why should society subsidize your bad choices? We shouldn’t. Even if I felt that student loan forgiveness were a worthy cause—which I don’t—you’re a lousy spokesperson for the cause. To the extent that freeloaders like you try to parasitically discharge your own debts, you do so at the expense of the taxpayers (who guaranteed and subsidized your loan), and/or other students (who would face commensurately higher borrowing costs, if your relief were granted en masse.)

You’re right, I’m a prick, but only to sanctimonious, over-privileged whiners, who thrust themselves into the NY Times as some sort of martyr. I know damn well that you can’t with a straight face claim to have left no stone unturned before resorting to default on your debt. Why didn’t you move in with friends or family, and take a crappy job to pay down your debt? Why do I look at the picture of you in the Times and see you sitting before a new flat panel display, with a nice new cell phone, and a pair of designer sunglasses on the desk? If you were serious about “accepting responsibility for borrowing money”, you’d realize that the US taxpayers are picking up the slack for your decision to stand on the street corner handing out self-published pamphlets like a crazy street preacher, rather than getting a damn job and writing the checks that you owe.

Your little Don Quixote cause is going to make you entirely unemployable—what has it been, 7 or 8 years since you held a real job? Plus, now when employers Google you, they’re going to see you for the slacker that you are. My advice: Get over it. Move back with your parents. Get a regular job, ideally that takes advantage of your 6 years of higher education, but a job folding clothes at the Gap if necessary. Sell your crap. Turn off your cell phone plan. Start paying down your debt. And lose the self-pity. A 38-year old, healthy white guy, with degrees in engineering, doesn’t make a convincing “victim loser.”

and another:

(1) Did you not read before you signed the loan agreement? Why do you need “negotiation power” with the lender? What part of “unconditional promise to pay” do you not understand?

(2) Nobody put a gun to your head and told you to go to USC, which is a ridiculously overpriced private school with a second rate reputation; why didn’t you go to UCLA or Cal, get a first rate education, and come out 1/3rd in debt?

(3) I particularly liked the part where you quit a lab job at Cal Tech in 2001 because you didn’t get a raise; classic overprivileged mentality. I could make money if only I could buy you for what you’re worth, and sell you for what you think you’re worth. Quitting your job because you didn’t get a raise, right in the face of a looming recession? Sounds to me like somebody who figured he was “worth more” after years of sitting on the sidelines during the Internet bubble, and got his comeuppance for being a retard. Then you sat out the long recession. (Hey guess what, pal, I was unemployed for 6 months in that recession too!)

(4) I personally had $50k in student loans, which I retired completely in 4 years. Cry me a river. How about you give up your salsa and tango lessons, and get a second job, or work longer hours? Oh wait, I forgot, “personal responsibility” isn’t part of your vocabulary.

(5) You’re 38 years old. 16 years of your professional life is over; what do you have to show for it—no 401k, no savings, debt, bad credit, probably unsecured credit card debt too. Good one, there pal. Stop whining about it you overpriveged tool, and act like a man. Face your responsibilities.

I received this comment today and thought it was definitely worth reprinting for everyone to read.  I’d like to thank whoever wrote this, and I’d like to receive more comments like it.  This position seems very much similar to mine, which is not one of hate or ill-will, just simply a call for people to take responsibility for the choices they make.

Here is the original comment:

Anyone in America can get a student loan because the federal government guarantees them. In return, student loans are very difficult to disrupt in bankruptcy. This quid pro quo allows students who otherwise could not afford higher education to better themselves. Defaults threaten the viability of the education system, which has helped many.

Each student decides whether or not to attend college, and how to finance their debt. If the student is not able to convert that education to a good job, it is no one’s responsibility but their own. That is the harsh reality. Each person is responsible for their own financial decisions; it is not the government’s job to tell anyone that spending $50K for a cooking degree from Katherine Gibbs is not going to be worthwhile. The government insures the loan, not the risk the student cannot get a decent return on investment on their education. If college is too expensive, don’t take out the loans and don’t go to college. If you decide to take out loans to attend college, be prepared to pay back the loans because you alone made all the decisions. As far as I am aware, the government doesn’t force you to go to college or borrow money to do so.

I sympathize with those who are overwhelmed with their student loans, but there are many out there who have benefited from the access to higher education the student loan program provides. Everyone on Student Loan Just made a grownup decision to borrow money to go to school. If they aren’t doing as well as they think they should be, the government and the American taxpayer are the last parties to blame: the responsible party is staring at them in the mirror.

First of all, I want to say that I appreciate comments like this being left here.  Contrary to what most of the SLJ people think, I do not get any satisfaction from people who are struggling to pay back loans.  I really do feel for the people who become so desperate that they feel they have nowhere to turn but Alan Collinge and his P.A.C.  It isn’t pity, I can completely understand how difficult life can be and how unfair student loans may appear to be when you are barely making enough money to pay rent and have enough to eat.  That being said, I truly appreciate intelligent and heartfelt comments about student loan troubles and especially like hearing about those of you who find yourselves disheartened with the extreme tactics of Student Loan Justice and its founder Alan Collinge.

Thank you Mary for this comment and I wish you the best of luck with your student loans.

I agree with you Charles. I went to SLJ for support. I have struggled with my student loans for years. I realize now that I was naive in taking out all that debt to go to a school that was beyond my means and studying something that wasn’t an easy market to break into. But that was then, this is now.

I was very troubled to see all the bickering back and forth. I thought it was a support group. I regularly would write to legislators, journalists, I even interviewed with one for my local paper. I was really offended that I was accused of not doing my fare share. It got to the point where I just stopped posting because I was afraid of what sort of responses I would get.

I don’t bear no grudge to Alan Collinge, though. The student loan machine is not a fair one. I’m all for paying off my debts but to be continuously harassed and not given flexibility when it came to a fair payment plan. I was expected to pay more for my student loans than my rent at a time where I was living paycheck to paycheck.

Nevertheless, SLJ seems to have an attitude and doesn’t really offer any type of support only demands.

And I hate the word “deadbeat”. Just because someone isn’t in a position to pay off their loans doesn’t make them a deadbeat. I want to pay off my loans, I just can’t! I’m on the verge of homelessness right now.

It is worth reprinting since the previous post quotes from it. In the interest of fairness, I will reprint the entire letter to the members. It is filled with exactly the kind of self-righteous rhetoric that persists in everything they write. Enjoy and once again, bravo Naida to standing up to this kind of thinking. Thanks to “Jake” for forwarding this on to me.

I kind of grumbled something a while back about possibly re-instating
the posting feature of this list after the primaries. For those of
you who are new, the reason behind that was that there was a lot of
preaching to the choir and not a lot of actual activism going on.

This list is for ACTIVISTS. If you are not an activist, not
interested in sticking up for yourself, not actively trying to defend
your own self from the abuse of the student loan industry, and instead
just watching from the sidelines, then I’m sorry. This list is not
for you. Please leave. Still here? Why? Thinking about becoming an
activist? Good, now BECOME one. It’s very easy: look up your
Representative AND Senator, write down their phone/fax numbers AND
email addresses AND physical addresses, and then USE THEM to tell
those guys your problems (call AND email AND send a real letter –
they are all logged separately so the count goes up). Don’t even
bother finishing reading this email, just get off your computer and
call those suckers and THEN come back and tell us that you have done this.

I’m NOT kidding. I’m not going to do your work. Alan Collinge, the
guy who started this movement, got so sick of all the bellyaching and
the huge weight on his back to shoulder your burdens that he QUIT. I’m
even less interested in helping you, so go get busy helping yourself.
All I want here on this list is reports about what everyone is doing.
Honestly, I don’t care if YOUR issue is resolved, so long as MINE is.
If everyone took this frank approach and acted upon it, we might
actually achieve something. Do your work with the attitude that you
are only interested in your own outcome and anything else that happens
is incidental; I think this is a realistic and more powerful way to
achieve the change we need.

So. The primaries are FINALLY over, we have Obama vs. McCain and a
whole lot of more local people vying for state and federal
congressional seats.

Your personal choice does not matter for the purposes of this list.
Of course it matters very deeply to you in your real life, but keep
politicking OFF this list, OK? Yes, the Democrats overall are more
likely to help us, but the Republican angle of responsible spending
can be played with, too, so ALL candidates MUST be approached.

What matters on this list, and it matters A LOT, is that you contact
ALL the campaigns of those people running in your area, from your
local dogcatcher to BOTH presidential candidates. TELL THEM that you
NEED them to crack down on student loan problems.

I am aware that there are mo’ betta ways to have said all these
things, and that I probably sound rude, especially to those who are
new here. I have no apology for this. Go through the archives and
see with the perspective you now have, after our four-month-long
hiatus, what ever really got accomplished. NOTHING except that all
the moaning drove Alan away. There are no policy changes that have
happened or even been proposed. There is nothing new in Obama’s
campaign speeches to suggest that he’s warmed up to us.

There are less than 200 people on this list, so our power to do
anything as a collective is pretty small. However, if each person can
spread the word in their own area, just tell a couple people a week
that they should complain to the legislators. Also, visit the
various places online where you can tell your story, and do so. Get
over any shame you are feeling about being in debt and instead get mad
about it. Get mad and get EVEN, that’s the only way out of this crap.

We’ve lost Hillary (dropped out) and Ted Kennedy (illness) as
advocates, so we need to dig a little deeper and find out who can be
leaned on.

Holli

I just read this message posted to the Student Loan Justice yahoo group.  I couldn’t agree more with Naida and her points concerning the most recent post by Yahoo Group Moderator Holli Kerr.  I’d like to say that Holli’s original message surprised me, but I have read enough from that group to know how they act and how most think.  It really makes me happy to know that not all the members of Student Loan Justice are like Holli or Alan Collinge and actually are looking to make sensible changes to the laws governing student loans and the repayment of them.

As much as the SLJ members would like to believe that I am some Student Loan “shill”, the truth is that I am really just a person who happens to think that Student Loan Justice is a ridiculous group dedicated to furthering only the members desire to weasel out of the student loans they signed up for.  I find their tactics, beliefs, and lifestyles so ridiculous that I figured I would do my best to expose them for who they really are.

So here is the response letter from Naida to Holli Kerr:

Holli

~Naida

Just thought I would share the rest of the donations to Student Loan Justice with everyone here. I’m sure they have nothing to hide. Not a whole lot of money filtering in to pockets of Alan Collinge, er I mean StudentLoanJustice, but enough that it is worth reporting.

To see the donations, click here.

Just thought it was noteworthy to report the contributions of Alan Collinge and the rest of Student Loan Justice to their political action committee.  The reason this is an issue is very simple, this guy owes a lot of money to student loan companies that he simply refuses to pay back.

It seems to me that if you have enough money to contribute to a P.A.C., then you have enough money to make payments on your student loans.  I wonder if Alan Collinge ever things about the fact that he borrowed money to get his THREE degrees, promised to pay it back, then whined about the fact that they charged him interest while he was vacationing in Alaska.  This is exactly what sickens me about Alan Collinge.

Here is the link to the Contributions of Alan Collinge.

Wow, I cannot wait to read this book.  The only problem is that I absolutely refuse to give a dime to this guy.  Not sure how I am going to swing reading this pile of trash without supporting his cause to weasel out of student loan debt, but I’m sure I will find a way.  I am giving everyone the link to the book on Amazon, mostly because I am certain that nobody is really going to buy this thing.

I really enjoy the quotes about Alan on Amazon.  I especially like the following:

“Alan Collinge has been to student-loan hell, and has managed to survive to tell about the experience. Turning his personal nightmare into a cause for activism, Collinge has emerged as one of the most effective critics of the student loan industry and its patrons in Washington. Readers will be as outraged as he is with what passes for federal student loan policy.”
—Barmak Nassirian, Associate Executive Director, American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO)

I wonder if Barmak has ever bothered to read the story of Alan Collinge as told by himself which reveals his complete disregard for paying back his student loans.   If any of you have not, please take a moment to read it here.  It is written by Alan Collinge and will surely be left out of his new book.

Good Luck Alan!  I’m sure this will get you and your P.A.C. Student Loan Justice absolutely nowhere.  Here’s an idea, how about you just pay back your loans like you promised to do?

Definitely like this Jay guys rants.  He started out the day threatening to send his lawyer after me.  Now he ends with some truly wonderful SLJ rants filled with all the usual.  Threats, insults, and all without ever really making a decent point.  I hope you all enjoy this as much as I do.  Oh, and please check out Jay’s site at  www.firebrandthriller.com .  I think he does sales there so order up some of his delicious hot sauces and help the guy out.  He complains of too many calls from Sallie Mae, so perhaps he will get some calls that will lead to sales.

1. Jay | 

   I have to say, this is a new level of assholism if ever there was a possibility.

   What is it that you are trying to “expose” here? That here is really truly a threat and problem with predatory student loan companies, namely Sallie Mae?

   What really is your argument here? Frankly I call you out as a coward and a corporate shill.

   This website is the sham. Not studentloanjustice.org

   
   

2. Jay | 

   “admin” ,

   Here is what matters most about your website. You traipse the fine line of libel and have attracted the eye of my lawyer who will follow your every word and context of what you claim are “…straight from Alan’s comments on other blogs or from a yahoo group…”

   That is a warning to you and your obvious corporate affiliation. Next will be a cease and desist letter if this goes any further.

   Now, back to business and the reason why I have a lawyer. I was taken by your employers..oops I mean Sallie Mae. I not only had written documentation of what my loan amount was to be, but also my interest rate, my monthly payment estimate, and a fee schedule of things and services that Sallie Mae supposedly does, up to and including no charge (at the time) for forbearance, and also not including the $50 per loan charge above 3 loans within one loan account.

   So, fast forward to only 2 years later, my interest rate triples (WHILE IN SCHOOL), my monthly payment goes way more than they said it would be by the time I get the first bill it was also triple the original amount. And each bill included an extra $150 on top of the outrageous payment that was required before they would even process the payments.

   Since then they have managed to both keep me from keeping a job by calling my places of work 10-15 times per day, and also keeping me from work by posting both libel (hence the lawyer) on my credit report that has caused me to lose multiple job offers and opportunities due to their predatory business practices. They knew exactly what they were doing when they charged more than I made at the time since the very first bill came.

   All I did was dare to go to school.

   If you are one of those people who have some sort of entitlement issue because you were born with a silver spoon in hand then already you have nothing of value to say on the internet in regards to student loan justice and a student bill of rights.

   Frankly, this whole website and the contents of which is nothing more than a very cowardly thing to do. A new low.

   
   

3. Jay | 

   If you have nothing more to say than to pick on peoples spelling mistakes and your “language” issues. then there is really nothing of value you have to say at all about this whole issue. To be honest, the value of your website with it’s contents including this “Dog” and other pointless tripe all do nothing more than tell your “visitors” how much of a joke this is and nothing more than a way for you to get attention.

   If you really have actual things to prove or say against Student Loan Justice, say them not this other presumptuous and shallow garbage. Get serious. Stop hiding behind your Admin name, show your credentials. Without sounding like a raving lunatic actually voice your reasons for doing this. Until you can do that, even your silly assumptions and injection of what “really” must be what I have been going through is nothing more than crap from a very petty person.

   
   

4. Jay |

   One final thought, I do not lie. I have been under oath multiple times and testified that my interest, with documented proof, had tripled in less than 2 years and stayed that way until Sallie Mae automatically and without my prior notice consolidated the 18 separate loans they opened on my credit rating which allowed them to raise the interest to over 27% down to 5 loans. Hence the $150 payment processing fee and the slight reduction of interest to just under 18%.

   The contract I signed was 9% APR and it was not supposed to be more than $450/mo.

   You haven’t earned much credibility to really be believed any further than your erratic accusations and conjecture. Especially when all you can do is resort to pettiness as that is a sign you really don’t have much to stand on.

   
   

5. Jay | 

   People are people, but it takes an extra measure of maturity to just allow people to express themselves the way they know how. Even if that includes talking against your methods “admin”, even if that includes the way by which Nanette is expressing herself/himself.

   You put this inflammatory website up to get your attention that I guess you were lacking. So, there it is. Get it?

   
   

6. Jay |

   I am in a position where Sallie Mae calls where I may be working at the time 15-20 times per day when they don’t receive payment in full. They call me, my co-workers “looking for me” and my bosses. Even if I am paying more than half of my monthly income, it still doesn’t even pay the interest and because of this, often times I am let go or “laid off” from work because I am a risk to the business, only to have Sallie Mae auto-forbear my account adding another $8000-$9000 to the principal and raising the monthly payments even more so that the next job I get, even if it pays more, it doesn’t matter. I can never get ahead.

   “Admin” is simply grossly misinformed and is too filled with assumptions and presumptions to really know what is going on and the different facets to this whole fiasco that there really is.

   Worse, he now claims he somehow “knew”” about Sallie Mae and avoided them, so in fact he’s simply here to thumb his nose at us for a laugh. Not for anything of real value.

   No, until he grows up a little and actually provides some truly valuable information that is well researched and even includes more than simply assumptions as to how I may be wrong or “lying” as he likes to say about everyone, he has nothing to go on.

   Admin, I am calling you out. Do you have the guts to truely be as legit as you claim to be? Or will you continue to hide behind your anonymous whois lookup and dreamhost account with a default Admin username? Will you actually show more than what Alan “might” have said or post comments of his out of context. Will you actually do your research and learn about how predatory Sallie Mae, specifically, is and prove your accusations?

   I highly doubt it.

Carlos |

I’m just wondering why there’s no contact information for this site and why you don’t identify yourself?

Seems odd that you’d take this approach while hiding in the grass. I’m not here to flame you, just ask some questions. I can’t find a place to do that.

Hey Carlos, thanks for the comment. The question of why don’t I identify myself is simple. Student Loan Justice is pretty well documented as a group who is willing to go to great length to advance their agenda. While I certainly am not outwardly scared of Alan Collinge or any of the members, why deal with the hassle? I am just here to share my view as an opposition to what they stand for. I never actually had a problem with Alan until I found out his story, in his own words on a blog I found. It enraged me to think of how he wasted his opportunity, squandered his 3 degrees, and then had the balls to bitch and moan about the fact that he had to pay back his loans. I felt sick to my stomach, so I decided to dig a little and was rather sickened by what I read. So I figured I had the right to start a blog to share my opinions and I decided that I would do so anonymously because I like my life, I ultimately don’t really care what happens to SLJ, Alan, or “basic consumer protections” for student loans. It doesn’t impact my life that much because I have my loans and I intend to pay back every dollar.

I do really appreciate the comment, and I honestly didn’t start this blog to piss people off, I figured I might get some relatively intelligent and well thought out arguments as to why SLJ feels they deserve the right to declare bankruptcy on student loans. I couldn’t have been more wrong. Turns out that all they do is rant, threaten, insult, and whine.

So I continue mostly because it is a fun thing for me to do for a half hour a day….or week. I learned how to get my site ranked on Google and it has been a bit of an interesting learning experience for me. So please feel free to comment more, argue your case, and I really hope you are different than the rest.